…on the other hand…

I am not necessarily arguing against these thoughts but just wanted to throw out some reflections concerning these two topics.

Chronicle Article about Poor Preachers

  • Gee, what did Paul, Peter, Timothy, and Titus do in place of an IRA Roth?
    • and did they miss out on gardening and reading the paper with a nice cup of coffee and playing with grandkids and travelling and playing bridge with their other retired friends?
  • I wonder if older generations weren’t so proud and younger generations weren’t so materialistic, then families could take care of retired preachers with no income.
    • Up until a couple of generations ago, having 3+ generations under one roof was the norm.
  • Thank God for little country churches that are not searching for someone “35-45 with a Masters and 5-10 years of experience” and that can provide a house and minimal income to support to older preachers.

The most evil, reprehensible, film ever made?

  • After receiving email after email warning me about this film…
    • I think I am going to see it out of spite
    • where was the email brigade when Saw IV came out?
      • and “Walk the Line” was glorifying adultery?
      • etc. and so on
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20 thoughts on “…on the other hand…

  1. I’ve wondered about the whole concept of retirement. We view it as an inalienable right, yet I’m not sure where to turn in the Bible to find it taught.

    Still, I want it! What does that say about me?

  2. I caught Charles Stanley on tv this past Sunday morning while getting ready for church, and one point I got was that retirement from a secular job is an opening for more ministry. He taught that it wasn’t a time of rest (actually that is a danger), but a time to finally get to do what God’s been leading toward.

    The most impressive thing he said was everyday 6,000 people reach retirment age. That’s over 2 million people a year that could multiply ministry. Imagine how 2 million new volunteer ministers/missionaries, etc. EACH YEAR could change the world (of course, not to say that it takes numbers with God). I’m sure that Stanley was preaching from Biblical principles because I don’t see any explicit command regarding retirment in the Bible. But maybe you can search for the sermon if you’re interested.

  3. Brian, the reason for no emails about Saw IV is that everyone knows what it is about but some may think that Golden Compass is a delightful family movie. Not saying I approve of the emails just trying to put a friendly spin on them. I don’t know about Walk the Line, but if it’s about Johnny Cash then we all know what it’s about as well.

    AARP has a series of commercials out right now with a bunch of kids telling politicians that if they could vote they would vote for politicians who would truly give us financial and health security. We live in a society that expects certain things be guaranteed. Retirement has become one of them. I don’t think I could live more than 2 years on what we have set aside for retirement. But God has always been good to us and I have no doubt He will continue.

  4. Brian

    steve,
    stanley is usually good. i like him. that is a powerful point. i will check into that sermon.
    thanks for commenting

  5. Brian

    good point, matt

    i wonder about the size of the congregations,
    maybe sometimes it is ignorance on the part of the congregation, other times they just can’t afford to pay what they would like to pay.

  6. paula

    I see Bob’s point concerning the GC but still Im sick to death of getting emails about it. I wish people were this fired up about evangelism…..

    As for retiring preachers, when you’re ready to retire you can come live with us…in the basement…with all the scary spiders

  7. Sorry to kick in on this so late. But I’m kind of with Tim. I think we put too much emphasis on retirement, but I don’t want to give mine up. I don’t want to be the man that Jesus talked about who stored up all his treasures on earth and put all his effort and future in his material wealth. But at the same time, I feel the need to save. As much as I like Dave Ramsey I think he’s crazy when he wants me to save so that I can have 6 million dollars when I retire. What do I need 6 million dollars for?

  8. Re: Retirement — I’m not expecting to live long enough to see it. It’s important to Dan, so we’re saving for it, but I’m not worried about it. Maybe that’s something that comes more as we get older (the worrying about it). I guess I can’t say much about preachers retiring … no offense or anything, but I don’t think preachers are making a whole lot less than the average school teacher (if it’s less at all — our elders asked Dan how much he made so they could pay our campus minister about the same as a starting teacher, so I know most ministers probably make more than he does).

    Re: the movie — I’m sick of the emails too. But I agree with Dad — with Saw & Walk the Line the “evil,” so to speak, was made known. According to the email (& it seems snopes & wikipedia verify it), the movie has a subtle, underlying message that will come out more when you get into the books. I’m taking the email more as a warning to at least be advised so that if my kids want to see the movie(s) or read the books, we can watch/read them together & discuss them.

    Having said that … would you people please stop emailing me about it? I think everyone’s heard about the evils of the movie by now.

    Good discussion, Brian!

  9. preachershouse

    I have not heard about the evils of this movie – not even certain what movie. But that is ok, we will probably skip it anyway. I will say that after 6 months of no tv, it is nice to at least get PBS again. On a good day and if we position the antenna and foil right then Josh can even watch his new favorite team play a little football.

    Maybe we should go on and buy an antenna now because I know we can’t afford cable/satellite on James’ retirement. Actually, I don’t see James retiring. I can only think of one preacher that I have ever known that retired. I never thought of him as much of a minister to start with.

    Kathy

  10. preachershouse

    OK, I just looked Golden Compass up and see what you are saying. I agree with Lisa, I appreciate the heads up so I know how to respond to Josh about it. I’ll be honest in saying, I’m still not a Harry Potter fan for these same reasons. (yet, I let Josh know/see/own everything Star Wars…)
    Kathy

  11. NB

    Retirement: I’m sure cost of healthcare/insurance will prevent most people from ever being able to really retire. I think that’s where the six million comes into play – insurance.

  12. We’ve accepted a political activism sort of approach to our Christianity. Passing along emails that tell of the subtle “evil” of movies like Golden Compass counts as “doing my part.” Even though I think we should redirect our energies I’m glad that Christians get fired up about something. I agree with Paula it would be nice if people would get this fired up about sharing the gospel with others. In fact I believe that if churches are to be truly relevant again they should back off politics and stick to evangelism and making disciples.

    Speaking of the issue of relevance, here are two blogs to read.

    http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/11/05/prophetic-untimeliness-by-os-guiness/

    http://willimon.blogspot.com/2007/11/on-not-reaching-our-culture-through-our.html

  13. Neva

    Haven’t yall ever heard that preachers never retire? All the retirement we need we will get in heaven! Having witnessed men like Gerald Paden keep preaching well into his 70’s, I have decided that’s what I want to happen to Ned. He can preach until his spirit leaves him. And then retire to sit at the feet of the Savior.

    Peace
    Neva

  14. Nana

    Preaching past “retirement age” is good. Dealing with administrative affairs that take too much time is bad. To expect preachers to live below poverty level, with no health insurance, and no way to afford any, is bad. “Big” churches may have money to set up a retirement program, but many, many congregations just don’t have that kind of money, and supporting missionaries seems to be where any extra money should go. Could we consider older preachers local missionaries, and provide some sort of income for them, so they could feel useful and needed, but not overburdened with worldly cares? It would be wonderful if older preachers no longer wanted in regular pulpits could receive what beginning teachers receive – with the benefits that usually come with that.

  15. preachershouse

    I don’t know if anyone will look back at this but, my two cents. Many of the preachers I have know who didn’t have much in a retirement fund were just not committed to it. It is like anything else. We choose for Kathy to stay at home with our kids while they are young. We lived in a 900 square foot house to help that happen. That little house did not hurt them in anyway. Generations of people have raised their families in that size house or smaller. We are just not putting our priorities out there honestly.

    I have know ministers who didn’t carry insurance saying they couldn’t afford it. If you have read much of my comments about Oklahoma, the one thing I had against it was that health care was outrageous! I did not blow if off. I did not expect the church to do something about it. I did trust God it would work out. AND IT DID. We had a major medical policy as I see it. Our deducible was 5k each. We had no prescription drug card and had to pay everything out of our pocket but the bills got paid.

    As for retirement in the Bible. There are passages that teach saving and storing to a certain level. The main thing was they were content with so much less, as is most teh world. I continually am concerned now about the barns we have and trying to avoid building any more. We were discussing christmas gifts with the kids at lunch today. I had told Josh before the move we might institute a new rule. For a new thing to come in something old has to go. I reminded him of this today and said we need to talk about it. Kathy observed the toys we have are staggering. Gifts this year might just be cloths and books, maybe a toy. We are so old fashioned aren’t we the grinches. Sorry for the rambling.

    James

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